Basil,

Sorry I hadn't got it posted off. Will e-mail you soon (things have been rather mad here lately).

regards, Tam

Hi Tam,

Don't worry, things have been pretty chaotic here as well!

Settling down a little, chance to relax over the bank hols! But still lots to do!

Tam,

When can we have your views on the Davis/LSO set on RCA? I've just started to listen to it. My first impression is that it is more Nordic chill than Karajan, Ashkenazy or Jansons. In the main, I'm very impressed, but I'm no expert on Sibelius and I would be interested to hear your opinions.

Regards, Ken

I've got 4 cycles left to post on. At the moment I'm working on Vanska's and the Davis/RCA is up next after that. So, with any luck, no too long (though much of the listening I've done lately for posts has actually been for a Mahler thread that's in the works).

I've also got a post to type up about Jansons' Oslo recordings, which I'll post shortly.


regards, Tam

As an interlude between cycles, time to visit this rather nice disc (or rather two disc set) from Mariss Jansons and the Oslo Philharmonic of symphonies 2, 3 & 5 (and various fillers).

Jansons gives the second a gentle and lyrical opening but with wonderful pulsing undercurrents on on the strings. He brings a remarkably fresh texture to this familiar Sibelius work. He also brings a magnificent (if not quite Bernsteinian, though with none his problems) chill, to both the wind and especially the strings. After the opening this is a fairly brisk reading, thought with no lack of sweep. The andante is marked by more fine playing (especially the pizzicato , though the dynamic range that bothered Ken on the other thread might well be an issue here - as the contrasts are, to say the least extreme. There is real bite and drive to the big chords, and yet this is tempered by some wonderful soft lyricism in the quieter moments. But at times I think I would prefer things just a little slower, the music savoured that bit more. However the slower pace towards the close of the movement is nigh on perfect and the final bars are played with real mastery. In the third movement Jansons' tendency towards the brisk is more appropriate. As in the first movement there are some very well judged contrasts between fast and slow and he builds well leading into the finale. Which is characterised by a wonderful sweep and more fine playing (notably this time from the brass). The passages that call to mind (for me, at least) Wagner's forest murmurs are wonderful. He again gets a nice chill to the orchestral sound (though by no means the coldest on disc) and some exceptional string playing. There is a flow and a grandeur to the movement - it feels just right, right up to the triumphant close. A recording well worth hearing. The rest of the disc is filled with The Swan of Tuonela, Valse Triste and the Andante festivo. All of which are nice enough, though there is nothing especially remarkable.

Disc two beings with the 3rd symphony, and a very quick opening to the work. The main theme judders along nicely (as it should). Once again the playing is superb and once again the dynamic range is very wide. However, unlike for most of the second, I find the contrasts in tempi a little two extreme. But there is some especially nice wind playing, and he maintains a great pulse beneath the faster moments, it's when the pace slackens that he doesn't entirely convince me. The tempo (still fairly brisk) is much better judged in the middle movement. But while it is nice enough, I can't help feeling there is something missing. Not, though, in the excellent transition into the finale, which is taken very quickly, however he brings a nice lightness of touch. The main theme is played magnificently and Jansons builds well to a great finish.

Last, but certainly not least, comes the 5th. Right from the opening chords this feels rather special - there is both a chill and a majesty. Again the playing is excellent (as if I really need to repeat that again - indeed, this may be first encounter with the orchestra, I'll have to check, certainly I shall be listening out for them in the future). The pace is judged just right, neither too quick or too slow as has been the the case at times in some of the other works. There's something very fresh about these readings (typified here), I think I especially like the very clipped nature of his phrasing, which I find very refreshing. There is a wonderful depth to the playing, particularly in the climaxes (though, if I am splitting hairs they are perhaps a touch quick for me at times). He gets a very special texture - feeling both warm and cold at same time. There is a wonderful momentum and sweep to the close. The andante is delicately played, marred only by a tendency to rush slightly in the quicker passages, but Jansons manages the transition into the finale perfectly. As in the first movement the tempo is nicely judged. There is plenty of sweep and weight here too. He plays through magnificently (holding his pauses well) to a thrilling close.

All in all, a set well worth hearing (and available pretty cheaply, representing good value for money). The readings of 2 and 5 are very fine indeed, and where they on disc on the their own, it would be a real stunner. The 3rd is not quite so successful (though by no means a dud). It certainly makes me want to hear more of Jansons in Sibelius and makes me look forward all the more eagerly to his visit to Edinburgh this summer with the Bavarian RSO when they will be playing second. Can't wait.

Which makes it all the more shameful that this appears to have been deleted - however there seem to be plenty of copies knocking around on the amazon market place.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B00006YX73/ref...d=1176332316&sr=1-12

regards, Tam

quote:

It certainly makes me want to hear more of Jansons in Sibelius and makes me look forward all the more eagerly to his visit to Edinburgh this summer with the Bavarian RSO when they will be playing second. Can't wait.

Radio 3 played a couple of pieces by Jansons and the Bavarian RSO this afternoon, Verdi's Requiem and the Sibelius second symphony. Both were excellent, so I'd book those tickets ASAP!

The tickets are already booked.

Wish I'd spotted that broadcast (sadly I can't normally listen in the afternoon, but could have set a tape).

regards, Tam

I know I said Vanska was up next (and he is, and still in progress). Then it's Davis (who has grown a little more ambitious as I have folded in his Boston cycle and will probably take on all 2 and a half at once).

This is Jansons' second recording of the work (see above for the first). His success with on the Concertgebouw's own label has thus far been a little a little mixed in my experience. His Heldenleben was fine enough, though didn't altogether push my buttons; the disc of Beethoven and Brahms' second symphonies was an odd pairing, the latter of which didn't quite come off. The Mahler 6, though fine enough, paled next to his recent effort for LSO Live.

So how fares the Sibelius? The first movement opens with a middling tempo (perhaps a little on the slow side). The timings, for what it may be worth, are virtually identical to his earlier reading. A bigger difference is to be found in the dynamic range, where the contrasts between loud and quiet are not nearly so severe. However, the orchestra plays splendidly and Jansons creates some wonderful textures. Unfortunately, he does slightly spoil some of the big climaxes by rushing them a little. In the second movement the playing is again excellent, especially from the winds. What is particularly impressive is the clarity with which he brings out the various musical lines. A rather jumpy reading, in a good way, and although not brisk, a long way from Bernstein too. The movement's climax is very nice. The third movement opens briskly. The playing is full of excitement, and it is a credit to the players that they do not slip. He produces some extreme, but well judged, contrasts in tempo and magnificently builds and transitions into the finale. Where the brass playing is especially fine. There is also a nice sweep to his reading. Unfortunately it does drag slightly in places. But he does build a wonderful momentum for the final few minutes to a magnificent close. Throughout the reading there is a wonderfully dark feeling and a great clarity. He produces only a moderate chill, rather than the frozen temperatures of Bernstein. The recording is very well balanced and Jansons finds some great textures (and ones that feel new, or at any rate, fresh, to me). Indeed, this typifies one of the reasons the RCO label has always excited me, namely this orchestra's delicious and unique texture. The only problem is, as with his Mahler, I can't help feeling that conductor and orchestra are not yet quite so perfectly in sync with each other as he was with the Oslo Philharmonic. Doubtless that will come in time.

At the time of the disc's release I held off after CD Review suggested the fact the performances it is taken from were spread out had led to inconsistency. Listening, I don't think this is fair. One final quibble: for a single, mid-priced disc, one work that lasts just three quarters of an hour is poor value.


regards, Tam


p.s. Basil, I have been meaning to reply and with any luck will do so in the next couple of days.

Tam,

I'm surprised that you don't seem to have listened to the Oslo Philharmonic much. Have I misunderstood you? Their Tchaikovsky cycle is superb and more consistent than their competitors. Pletnev and Gergiev have made some excellent recordings of these works but not (I think) a complete cycle. Or are you not a Tchaik fan?

This thread continues to fascinate me. Thanks and regards,

Ken

quote:

Originally posted by KenM:
I'm surprised that you don't seem to have listened to the Oslo Philharmonic much. Have I misunderstood you?

No, you haven't. And given the quality of the recordings I've been picking up lately, it rather surprises me too. Certainly I'll be making the effort to hear more of them.

The Tchaik box is on my mental list of things I want to get and has been for a little while now. I've only come to the composer comparatively recently. My first foray was the Bernstein/New York cycle which didn't entirely grab me (where I think the fault lay with the conductor). Recordings I have picked up since (not least the Furtwangler Pathetique and Mravinsky's Lenningrad recordings) have removed any lingering doubts.

Glad you're enjoying the thread.


regards, Tam

Just posting to keep this open. I will post on Vanska as soon as I get round to typing it up (which, with any luck will be tomorrow).

regards, Tam

Tam,
If you can, then listen to Janssons/Oslo PO with Sibelius' 1st Symphony. He takes what is often described as merely a Tchaikovsy derivative and turns it somehow into a magnificent whole symphony, quite unique. I will certainly buy Janssons' Oslo discs as and when I encounter them.
For complete cycles, I'm tending to favour Ashkenazy. His Philharmonia 5-CD cycle on Decca was only £15.95 on Europadisc last month. I'm really enjoying working my way through. I've heard several individually though not before as a complete set.
Ashkenazy's Sibelius 2, recorded live with the Boston SO is pretty special, but I don't think they did a complete cycle.
Keep up the excellent work.
Ken

Thanks Ken. I just finished typing Vanska this afternoon, so once I've had a chance to reread it I'll post it.

I spotted the Ashkenazy the other day and was a little tempted so given your comments I may give it a go.

I didn't Know Jansons had done the first but everything else he's done with the Oslo Phil that I've heard has been very fine so I may have to pick it up. [edit] And after wrestling with Amazon's search facility I have found it. It appears to have been deleted and the marketplace sellers seem to want £25 for it. And, for a single disc, I'm really not prepared to pay that much. Ah well....

regards, Tam

This is by far the biggest survey under discussion here (though, in truth, the portion I will discuss is of about the same size as most of the other sets mentioned). Osmo Vanska's readings with his Lahti Symphony Orchestra come on the BIS label and while they can be had as a cycle, or separately, they are now available in a 15 disc box titled The Essential Sibelius with much else besides. Though, perhaps slightly annoyingly, this is by no means the complete Vanska (he has recorded two versions of both the 5th Symphony and the Violin concerto, the alternates are both absent here, as are a number of other works). However, we do get the seven symphonies and Kullervo (and a few other things which I won't really cover). The non-Vanska recordings I won't really address either (mainly because they aren't the symphonies or works I know well enough).

To begin at the beginning (even if it has to wait until disc 6), this is the first set thus far to contain Sibelius's first symphonic effort: the Kullervo Symphony (well, excluding the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra concert performances). It's a shame, as it's a wonderful piece: how fascinating to have heard Bernstein, Barbirolli or Oramo attempt it... (I suppose we may still hear the latter). And, in many ways, this is the highlight of the set. It feels so very right from the opening bars onwards, which are chilling rather than frozen and so beautifully played it whisks me straight back to the concert hall, the bass and wind playing is especially fine. As there was then, Vanksa gives a significant dynamic range (and choosing a volume that allows the quietest moments to be audible without infuriating the neighbours is not altogether simple). But, for this work at least, that is largely forgivable. The detail of the textures is very good as is the way he seems to layer the orchestra. The main theme emerges only subtly, but its emergence at the close of the first movement is wonderfully majestic. The beautiful slow movement is, if anything, more captivating both in terms of the drama he brings and the quality of the orchestral playing. Vanska highlights the icy tones underneath throughout and there is a real power to some of the big chords, and a nice contrast between these and the softer moments. The sleigh bells provide a vivid opening to the third movement and the choir, when they enter, are every bit as fine as they were in the concert hall (these are the same Helsinki University Chorus we had in Glasgow). That said the balance is not quite perfect and they are a little more distant than I would prefer. Kullervo and his Sister are okay, though the latter is not quite so scathing as I would like in her rejections of him (she improves as the movement progresses). But, to be honest, they are rather upstaged by conductor, orchestra and choir (but I think this is one of those works where that is okay). But the stars here are the choir, who really should be heard by any who gets the chance: their precision and control are wonderful - no more so than at the movements turning point when Kullervo beds his sister (as they do in these sorts of folk myths). This, followed by the orchestra's raw power, that of Kullervo's reaction and his sister's chilling response is really quite special. Vanska displays a real lightness of touch in the fourth movement. He judges the textures well - the rumbling drums in the background, for example. But Kullervo goes to war with gusto, the percussion playing throughout is pretty special. The choir open the finale with the incredible softness of which they are capable. Both choir and orchestra are fine thoughout and quite staggering in the final moments. However, perhaps inevitably, it is not such a perfect experience as in the concert hall. How could it be? Either way, this is a very fine disc, and an excellent introduction to the work (and one that I believe is available separately). Looking back, I realise I haven't mentioned tempi at all. I suppose that's because they all just feel right. At 80 minutes this work is quite a bit slower than Davis's more recent LSO Live effort (which I find a trifle rushed) and shorter than his earlier account. In other words, it feels just right to me.

The next disc (actually disc 1 in the box) contains the pairing of the first and fourth symphonies, and after Kullervo, it seemed this might be the cycle to beat. The first symphony is given a wonderfully soft opening. There is beautiful wind playing but the entry of the strings, one of my favourite moments in all Sibelius's writing, is not as electric as some. This is a frantic reading, but Vanska brings out a lot in the orchestration, there is a real menace bubbling beneath the surface throughout and a fierce edge to the strings. The andante is less successful. Vanska didn't really allow the music to breath sufficiently in the first movement and the flaw is much more critical here. On the other hand, the approach is well suited to the scherzo: briskly played with a nice lightness of touch. The finale beings well. There is a chill to the strings and a nice sweep. Vanska gives a lively and energetic reading and brings out plenty of depth in the orchestration. He builds weight and a wonderful momentum towards the close and, unlike Bernstein, does not allow it to flag. Nice enough, and certainly not without its moments, but it fails to live up to the promise of Kullervo. The fourth is altogether more successful (indeed, arguably Vanska's extreme dynamic range comes into its own here). A dark, almost leaden (in a good way) opening. Slow, with a real sadness to the playing. Yet nicely lyrical too and Vanska shapes the themes beautifully. Indeed, he gives the work a character that calls to mind Mahler's 9th. The orchestra play superbly. The second movement is lighter and more charming in tone but there is still a weight to the strings and some of that frantic edge that was so strong in his reading of the first symphony. The largo is, once again, marked by lovely wind playing. Again, the tempo is slow and he retains the same dark tone. Vanska really brings out the recurring themes in a way that makes me think this is one of the most magical of Sibelius's movements. He leads into the finale more gently than I would have expected (though with a near-perfect transition) and steadfastly refuses to build up a momentum giving the work a very modern feel and fitting it much better with the first 3 movements than in some readings. But Vanska becomes frantic again towards the end and with a final note even more clipped than in it often is.

This is followed by a coupling of the second and third symphonies. The second begins delicately with a moderate tempo. The orchestral playing is of the same high standard as the rest of this set and they produce some wonderful tones. The pace quickens as the movement progresses, but he doesn't rush the big climaxes. The dynamic contrasts here are less severe than elsewhere in the cycle. Vanska builds a nice momentum to the movement's close. The andante is marked by some fine pizzacato and wonderfully melancholic wind playing. This is not a sunny reading by a long shot and there is also a return of the extreme dynamic contrasts that were absent in the first movement. It is lyrical but with less sweep and less momentum than Vanska is capable of. But his frantic nature does return, especially in the timpani, before reverting to tragic lyricism for a nice close. There is a brisk, dancing tempo to the vivacissimo. The same orchestral tone and lyricism but even more sweep. He stirs up a wonderful frenzy and then grandeur leading into the finale. Which has a sweep to rival the best (and lightness of touch and clarity too). There is some sunniness to the reading here, but plenty more darkness as well. He builds a powerful, deliberate momentum to a magnificent finish. After his concert performance, I had high hopes for the 3rd. But, inevitably, the electricity of that occasion isn't quite here. There is a nice sweep to the opening, but the music doesn't seem to dance the way it did in Glasgow (and not even really recall it). But in some respects (given some of the extremes there), in a CD this is not altogether that bad a thing. And as the movement progresses he soon falls into something of the swift delicacy I recall and he keeps a wonderful pulse ticking throughout. Again, though I hardly need repeat it, the wind playing is excellent. The lyricism of the 4th returns for a fine close. The deceptive tempo and apparent gentleness of the slow movement hides an uneasy feeling. Very beautifully played, just shy of hauntingly, though with particularly extreme dynamics. Vanska manages the transition into the finale okay and starts with slower tempo than I would have expected. He builds a fine momentum and there is certainly no shortage of power to the climaxes. But he loses something of the pulse midway through. To be sure he is better recorded than Davis on LSO Live, but with much less punch.

The 5th symphony begins majestically with nicely rounded phrasing. Vanska takes a relatively brisk tempo and the orchestra play wonderfully. Once again, though, dynamics are extreme. The reading, to me, lacks sweep and he doesn't build the momentum as well as he might. But the close of the first movement is particularly nice, and there is a great depth to the orchestral sound, the closing bars are especially sensuous. The andante that follows is not very slow, indeed, I wish he would hang about a little at times to savour some more of the beauty of the score, but the playing is nicely delicate. The transition into the finale is very poorly judged, so much so that it almost feels like an editing error. Vanska is very, very quick, but the orchestra keeps up fine. But that doesn't really matter, as the pace is too fast and something is lost. He does slow up a little as the main theme emerges but it lacks grandeur (this is more glaring given how fine the work's opening bars were in this regard). And, as a result, what should be a magnificent climax falls rather flat. All in all, a disappointing reading and probably my low-point of the cycle. Of the fillers, En Saga is very fine. Finlandia is nice but lacks the excitement of Oramo or Barbirolli. Pohjola's Daughter and Valse Triste are both good too, though the dynamic range in the latter is especially pronounced.

The sixth is better and opens at a middling tempo, beautifully (and very quietly) played and Vanska really brings out the different musical lines. The pace picks up (in line with what one might expect from this cycle), but I would prefer a little more lyricism. The winds are, once again, excellent and there is a nice chill to the strings. The transition to the second movement is poor (also something of a hallmark of this set - admittedly this is not strictly a transition in the way some of the movements are, but the way this ends, and the next beings, sit uneasily with each other). The second movement as a whole doesn't really work, as Vanska takes it somewhere between edgy and beauty. There is a nice spring to the vivace, but in some ways it is a little rushed. He brings the third movement to a fine, frenzied close, but it comes out of nowhere. The finale has some lovely tones but is again rushed. Dynamic contrasts are again extreme. The orchestra plays wonderfully throughout, bringing a real depth to the climaxes. And yet, that extra something is missing and he doesn't quite seem to judge the end right. The opening swagger of the seventh is particularly pronounced, especially the basses. Vanska takes the opening andante relatively slowly. Again the playing is fine and unlike so often elsewhere, he actual seems to savour the score and build themes. There is a wonderful flow (no Mahler 9 syndrome here). Unfortunately, the trombones are not prominently enough balanced and the quicker moments (as so often on this set) feel really rushed. But when he slows up there is a magnificent majesty. And so the work continues, lurching unsatisfyingly from slowly majestic to over-hurried. The feeling of journey's end at the work's close is very satisfying, and yet at the same time strangely uneasy since it doesn't feel like he's taken us that far and the closing bars seem to come out of nowhere. The disc rounds off with a very fine reading of Tapiola.

Of the other works, the violin concerto is okay, but didn't seem anything special to me. The Wood Nymph is very good but the Lemminkainen suite is rather patchy. The box also contains some of Jarvi's recordings, some of which are nice enough to have me wondering if I should add his set to this thread. But then Karelia was very poor, feeling almost comically jocular. And elsewhere in works such as The Tempest or Pelleas and Melisande he is just rather dull.

There are still five or so discs (including one or two smaller works from Vanksa and plenty of choral and chamber music), I have yet to explore on this set. However, it has been something of a disappointment. At its finest (Kullervo, and to a lesser extent the 4th), it is exceptional, but elsewhere it doesn't really live up to the promise of those moments. It makes me wonder if Vanska is one of those artists who just doesn't translate as well into the recording studio as opposed to the concert hall, certainly I will be listening with interest to their Prom (all Sibelius, including the 7th). However, even given its relative cheapness, I'm not really left feeling this set was great value for money. But the Kullervo (available separately) is well worth seeking out as, probably, is the 4th.

regards, Tam

p.s. Ken, I wish you hadn't mentioned Askenazy - he's now on his way (it was just over £10 on Amazon, and his Mozart concertos, which I've flirted with for some time were only £15).

Tam,

I agree that Vanska offer something special in Kullervo, and I prefer this version to those of Jarvi/Gothenburg, Davis/LSO (from the RCA cycle), or Panula/Icelandic SO. These are the ones I own, so I cannot express an opinion on others. Panula on Naxos is surprisingly good, however, and well worth a fiver.

In Finlandia, of the half-dozen or so which I own, Ashkenazy seems to capture the nature of the writing best. With excellent Decca sound, he just seems to have the edge on Jansons, Barbirolli and Vanska. His Karelia Suite is also outstanding but these are all very fine performances.

Luonnotar is a tone poem which grows on me. Phyllis Bryn-Julson (with the RNSO and Gibson) is more appealing to me than Soderstrom with Ashkenazy but Soile Isokoski with Segerstam and the Helsinki SO is just magical.

With EMI withdrawing Jansons' Sibelius symphonies, maybe we can hope for a bargain box reissue, as they have done with his Tchaikovsky cycle. I live in hope.

Regards,
Ken

Correction:
Jansons Tchaik cycle was on Chandos, not EMI. EMI's bargain of the moment seems to be the 5-CD box of Barbirolli's Elgar for £9 from HMV (on-line price). I get confused sometimes.
Ken

Dear Ken,

I finally picked up Jansons' Tchaik last weekend - and fantastic it has been too. Wonderfully played and recorded. Jansons really did have a special relationship with the Oslo Philharomic (and in some ways finer than what he has so far accomplished with the Concertgebouw). Certainly it's better than the NY Bernstein cycle that was my only source of the first 3 symphonies until now.

The Ashkenazy arrived this week, though I haven't got to the Sibelius yet, the Mozart concertos are very fine (though I still prefer Uchida here).

I agree that Soile Isokoski is wonderful, but I'm not sure I want the disc if Segerstam is conducting as I really couldn't stand his readings of 5, 6 and 7.

As to the Vanska box, last night I listened to the disc of string quartets (obviously not featuring Vanska) are very fine indeed, as are some of the songs.


regards, Tam

Don't really have anything new to add just yet, but wanted to save this from automatically locking.

Sibelians in the area might like to know that as part of Oramo's final season at the CBSO he will be doing a cycle in September. The concerts are all within a week of one another and details can be found here, here and here. Given how fond I am of this combination's recorded cycle (see towards the start of this thread), I'm seriously considering a trip down to hear some or all....


regards, Tam

BBC Radio 3 is repeating its programme on Sibelius' 2nd Symphony from 5:00 pm to 6:30 pm today, 22 July. I missed it last time, so it must be worth a listen. The featured orchestra is the BBC Scottish.
Ken

quote:

Don't really have anything new to add just yet, but wanted to save this from automatically locking.

It's time the "powers that be" excluded the music section from the ridiculous practice of locking old threads!