quote:

Originally posted by graham55:
Scandalously, I have to confess that the one I listen to most is Solti (which I have on highly prized Teldec DMM LPs and Decca's most recent CD transfers). The sound, the sound!!!!!!

I'm afraid I may have news for you. Much as I hate to suggest it, I am currently listening to a set that trumps Solti on sound. I recently inherited the Haitink set with the Bayerischen Rundunks (recorded about 15 years ago and it is really something). I'll post a full review at some point (along with the other rings I've listened to in the last six months or so), but this one sounds amazing. And the singing, in Rheingold at least, is very fine too (less so in Walkure - where Eva Marton is Varnay or Nilsson). But Haitink really has a certain understated something in his conducting that shows off the beauty of Wagner's score in quite a special way.

regards, Tam

I still prefer the Channel 4 TV Boulez I first saw/heard about 1982 - maybe 1983 - even if there are better audio recordings.

I look forward to 1-day 15 hours BBC R3 transmission with relish, as I will like it/prefer it to 10 days of Bach.

Just an addendum to my above post about the Haitink ring: do not buy it! I'm listening at the moment to act 3 of Siegfried and Eva Marton's Brunnhilde is painfully awful. Rheingold is fairly worth having from this set, but if this singing is anything to go by, I suspect little else is (which is a shame, because as noted above the orchestral playing is very fine indeed).

regards, Tam

Well Amazon finally sent my copy of the Keilberth ring which they had hiding on their site for £29.99.

Listened to the first act last night and first impressions are very favourable. Sound is very good - Hotter sounds glorious. Some more thoughts when I've listened to the lot.
David

Anyone else planning to be glued to the radio on Monday for Radio 3's Ring in a day?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/classical/thering/

I wonder if it will seem like such a good idea come.

Out of interest, anyone here know the Barenboim? I know Siegfried Jerusale (Siegfried, from the Met cycle, they're about the best things in it) and am sure I've come across John Tomlinson somewhere, but have no idea as to Anne Evans and as my experience with the Haitink ring sugests, a poor Brunnhilde can be painful.

regards, Tam

To be honest, I can't get too excited at the prospect of Barenboim's Ring (note the capital R!) and I wonder why Radio 3 chose that one. To tie in with his giving the Reith Lectures maybe? I wonder if they even considered trying to get Testament to lend advance copies of Keilberth's cycle.

I also happen to think that it's misconceived to play all four in one day. A bit of a gimmick, in my view.

I might try to hear a few bleeding chunks, though.

Graham

Graham,

I too wish they'd tried to get hold of the Testament. Ah well. Actually there was a chunk (most of act III of Siegfried played on CD Masters last week).

As to why they picked Barenboim, I read somewhere that the broadcast coincides with Warner's launch of their music download store (in which case it would seem to come awfully close to a shocking case of product placement).

I see the point as to whether or not it should be played in a day, it is a gimmick. That said, if it gets some people into Wagner then it's no bad thing (I want the opera houses to still be going in 50 years time).

regards, Tam

Hello all Wagnerians,

as an enthusiast of classical music from Purcell to Mahler I must admit, that I don`t find access to Wagner and his "Ring".

Just recently, I bought a recording of the Walküre ( Zubin Mehta, Bavarian State Orchestra, 4 CDs ) and tried to enjoy it, but no chance. There are only a few fine orchestral parts ( e.g. Ride of the Valkyries ), almost no melodies and the singing is boring for me as their are no beautiful arias. This music lasts 3 hours and 45 minutes, and it was impossible for me to hear the complete Walküre at one go.

Probably I am an ignoramus of Wagner`s music - although I like some of his overtures and pieces for chorus ( Tannhäuser, The Flying Dutchman, Parsifal etc. ) - but I want to know:
Why do you like to listen to the "Ring"?

Best wishes

Manfred

Dear Manfred,

I live for music, but I honestly struggle with Wagner, so don't panic. We are all different, and there is a nice collection of Wagnerites here to share notes with if the bug does bite!

The odd thing is that I know most of it quite well, but after 20 years I gave up!

All the best from Fredrik

PS: Just about to put on some Handel and Bach before hitting the hay! [going to bed].

I too struggled with Wagner as I don't have a musical education. I thought Tristan & Isolda was 2 hours too long when I sat thru Hockney's beautiful stage sets at 5 hours length. The Ring is One huge undertaking. I think the last act is the most thrilling as Valhalla burns down. But one of my friends is a trained musician and has said that Wagner ranks up there with Beethoven, Bach and Stravinsky in major composers who radically changed music. Although that doesn't mean you have to like Wagner. It may just not be your cup of tea.

Why? Because I think Wagner wrote some of the most wonderful music out there (I've just been listening to Cooke's introduction to it, and some of the brief snatches of the closing moments were absolutely devastating). That said, it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea (and I can often see why not). I was reading someone comment on another board (the Radio 3 ones, in fact) that they didn't get on with Beethoven, which I find much harder to understand, but it just goes to show.

Manfred - For what it's worth, Walkure is the Ring opera with which I have always struggled most (I find the first act can really drag) but I heard a Furtwangler reading recently that was utterly compelling. I must say, I don't agree about the lack of melodies, the Ring is full of them, and what is so clever is the way Wagner blends the various themes, or leading motives, together to make them up. I see you're point about arias, though if you can, check out Siegfried and Brunnhilde's duet from act 3 of Siegfried.

regards, Tam

Well, having been gun-ho about the whole Radio 3 'ring in a day' effort, or as Graham rather better put it on another thread '***ing stupid', I thought I would report. First up, and perhaps this was inevitable, I don't really think I gained any special insight from listening back to back (then again, maybe if I knew the work less well I might have, or maybe if a better Ring had been selected, more anon). I didn't get too bored at any point (except in Walkure which I always find drags a little, except when Furtwangler is conducting).

So, how does Barenboim's Ring stack up. It has been suggested it is the finest 'digital Ring'. Well, it is certainly more satisfying than Levine's DVD set (which I have poured scorn on earlier in this thread) and is liveable with in a way that the Haitink isn't (for reasons outlined above), so possibly it is. But why must we have digital. Maybe it was an issue with the broadcast (or my insufficiently good aerial) but I was profoundly unimpressed by the sound and didn't find Bayreuth to be significantly better caught than was Bohm in the 60s, and with Bohm you get Windgassen and Nilsson. It is better that Keilberth, in sound terms alone, but he has a cast that is to die for. I'm not at all convinced that the sound exceeds Solti, who again has a superior (if somewhat inconsistent cast).

I also think that the modifications that were made to the orchestral canopy at Bayreuth during Barenboim's time were a mistake (I think holes were made in it) but whatever the reason, I find the orchestra sound to dominate in a way in normally doesn't in recordings from there. This is perhaps also a signal that the leads aren't quite so fine as those in my other Bayreuth recordings. Tomlinson is okay, but I prefer Morris. Anne Evans is not bad, and I much prefer her to either Marton for Haitink of Brehens for Levine. The real star is Graham Clark who plays Loge wonderfully (and also Mime in Siegfried). The set's greatest flaw, for my money, is Barenboim's conducting. The problems seems to be that he tries to do a 'Furtwangler' the problem being he isn't. I think if you want to take things like the Gods' entry to Valhalla as slowly as he chooses to, then you need to bring something very special in return (as does Knappersbusch, for example) and he doesn't quite. For my money, Haitink offers an infinitely superior reading musically (though Brunnhilde cripples his set) and this is still better than Levine (who goes slower and brings less). However, if you want a Ring, you would be better served by earlier recordings.

All of which leads me to wonder whether, if tried with a superior Ring (i.e. Solti or Knappersbusch or even Bohm- I think Krauss or Furtwangler's poor sound quality would make the task painful) the 'in a day experience' would be more illuminating. That said, I'm in no hurry to repeat it. Then again, maybe I'm just bitter my entries didn't win the competition

regards, Tam

Well, after a suitable period sans Wagner (in something of a detox), I thought I'd give Barenboim another spin (since the BBC were kind enough to give me a set for my entry to one of their competitions).

Above I was a little unkind about the set (suggesting that this Warner set offers no significant improvement over Bohm at the same location some 25 years earlier). I think this should be put down to my NAT 101, without a proper aerial (I know - but I have no choice here) not being able to do the thing justice. I also suggested modifications to the canopy made a significant difference, and I stick to it - there is a certain quality, particularly of the strings, that I am used to in Wagner from this theatre (almost a harshness) which isn't here. More so, I think, while the singers are still very prominent, they are not so much so as early recordings.

However, the sound cannot hold a candle to Haitink's studio effort and, probably, not even to Solti.

I don't think that I have, as yet, anything much to add to my comments on the singing (though Tomlinson's Wotan impresses me more on disc than it did in broadcast, conversely I find I don't much care for Linda Finnie's rather harsh Frika). My conducting comments are also broadly similar in that I think he tries to be Furtwangler and doesn't quite make it. That said, he can hold a broad tempo far better than Levine and there is some lovely playing at points (for example when the Walhall leitmotiv comes in on the brass at the start of scene two of Rheingold).

I suppose one thing that might annoy (or not, depending on your perspective), the singers do move about a lot, and there can be a lot of stage noise. Clearly this is to be expected, this was, after all taped in performance. And for some this will heighten the experience, however, others it will annoy.

Interestingly (for a set packed in a slimish box like this) we do get full librettos (and even a DVD previewing the release of the cycle in that format).

This is certainly head and shoulders above the other 'digital' Rings I own (Levine and Haitink - which both have crippling flaws). However, I still think one does better to buy older.

regards, Tam