The allusion, in another thread, to the harpsichord vs piano debate sent me scurrying to Amazon to look for other non-purist approaches to Bach. There's a double CD of the sonatas and partitas for solo violin played on a specially constructed eight string guitar that get mostly glowing reviews:

Paul Galbraith - Bach Guitar

I'd be very interested in the opinion of anyone who's heard this. I'm also interested in the general question of whether this sort of jiggery-pokery is good thing. I guess there's more of a case for it in this instance has the works for solo violin are hardly idiomatic.

droodie,

yes, have this as well as his transcribed cd of haydn pieces. incredible. the man is not just a guitarist, but designed and constructed a special cello-like instrument that's essentially an 8-string guitar, AND transcribed all these pieces for his special guitar. i listen to these records all the time. galbraith's musicianship is impeccable. even while the whole thing is a bit gimmicky, it works and works well. i would buy these immediately.

I think that Segovia was the first to transcribe Bach's violin pieces for the guitar. There is (or was) a DG CD given over to his recordings of these.

Bach transcribed the work of other composers (Vivaldi violin to harpsichord for example)so why not transcribe Bach violin to guitar? I doubt Bach would have minded. I would buy the Galbraith in a second.

I ordered it earlier today, and am looking forward to hearing it at the weekend (which may also see me with a new Quadraspire rack).

Bach often goes rather well on the guitar. As Graham suggests Segovia pioneered this, and a couple of months ago I was lucky enough to have access to some LP transfers [from HMV 78s done in the 20s and 30s] of him playing, among other things, his Bach arrangements. I don't suppose such things appeal any less to many purists than guitar fans in many cases. They are fantastic in my view.

One of the most memorable performances of the Third Bandenburg Concerto that I ever heard [on Radio Three many years ago] was played on three guitars by Los Romeros [brothers] and they got it just beautiful, clear, and appropriately energetic! I wonder if that was a commercial recording or a BBC studio recording. I cannot remember.

ATB from Fredrik

I bought a disc recently called Scarborough Fair: Folk Songs for Tenor (Regis RRC 1112). A superb disc, and in the middle of it was a guitar transcription of Peter Maxwell Davis' "Return to Stromness". Surprised me, but I do enjoy it.

I've been meaning for a while to get a guitar version of the goldbergs, as (given some of the harpsichord registrations I've heard), I think it could work wonderfully.

However, if you want to hear this music really pulled about, Uri Caine's treatment is always worth a listen.

regards, Tam

Hmm, I'll dig out my Segovia set - I'm fairly sure it includes a CD of bach transcriptions. I listened to guitar versions of the four lute suites today - played by a Greek woman, whose name escapes me - and thoroughly enjoyed them.

The Uri Caine Goldbergs sound like a hoot - some of the enraged reviews on amazon.com are laugh out loud funny. Looks like another one to investigate.

quote:

Originally posted by Fredrik_Fiske:
Bach often goes rather well on the guitar. As Graham suggests Segovia pioneered this, and a couple of months ago I was lucky enough to have access to some LP transfers [from HMV 78s done in the 20s and 30s] of him playing, among other things, his Bach arrangements. I don't suppose such things appeal any less to many purists than guitar fans in many cases. They are fantastic in my view.

One of the most memorable performances of the Third Bandenburg Concerto that I ever heard [on Radio Three many years ago] was played on three guitars by Los Romeros [brothers] and they got it just beautiful, clear, and appropriately energetic! I wonder if that was a commercial recording or a BBC studio recording. I cannot remember.

ATB from Fredrik

Interesting that Segovias famous libertys with Bach are no problem for you,yet Glenn Gould sends you into a fit of ear covering

bad boy, we talk about the music here, d'ya have something to say about that? rgds.

Dear Dan Boy!

I have never worried nearly so much about what instrument is used as how musically it is played.

In the case of Glenn Gould's latest release of the Goldbergs, apparently a "machine" [correctly called a player piano] is employed in preference to employing a living artist, which strikes me as a move towards the begining of the end in music!

I don't think I have mentioned the "title named" artists directly here or on the other Bach thread that is current before this post, though my view tends to be, "If you cannot say anything nice, say the least possible." A search in the Archives will reveal several threads on this where my position is made clear. If I have point of controversy or negative reaction to this or that I ususally only post about it in response to questioning. The most discursive Thread on Gould's Bach was this one, linked below, in which I made a [rare]humourous comment at the begining which caused a very big Hoohah!

Goldberg Variations.

It was a very long Thread, and certainly a difficult read, but in it are discussed and debated a lot of factual details about the Goldbergs, and Baroque style, whether on the piano or the harpsichord. Unfortunately to get the idea you would need to read all ten pages of posts!

Your sincerely, Fredrik

PS: I know this is a Bach Guitar Thread but I felt it would be polite to answer Dan's point. Apologies for off topic intervention.

I am clearly not refering to the instrument,Segovia is well known to play it his way and not just with Bach,does not bother you, but with Gould it does,WHY?

Dear Dan,

I don't think anyone is imagining that Segovia's "Bach Transcriptions for Guitar" are any more truly pure Bach than the "Transcriptions for Jazz Band" of Jacques Loussier. I enjoy both Segovia, and Loussier when they take Bach as a basis. They are stunningly stylish on times! I quite like it when I hear a pop song that bases itself on a Bach theme as well!

My problem with Gould is how it is that his playing is great Bach musicianship, when it so blatantly avoids any attempt at a realisation of what Bach intended, by completely avoiding any sense that the phrase or even longer term architecture, is observed in a style that is known to be Bachian, and has been researched from the middle of the nineteenth century. If you really want to go into Historically Informed Performance Practice - HIP as it often called - then it is time for you to start a Thread to which I shall be glad to contribute to any questions raised.

Never-the-less, I realise some love Gould's Bach which in my view is splendid for those who do [!], but I do expect to be questioned if I post about my love of something that is controversial! Gould is very controversial, and a debate will always follow in his case. It is not only I who finds Gould more a Gouldian, than a Bachian!

Yours sincerely Fredrik

Fredrick,

Segovia's performance of the lute suites require little in the way of transcription,as if from violin.

These by your HIP yardstick are laughable,yet you enjoy them,but the far greater artist Gould you find unbearable to listen to.

I dont buy anything other than prejudice.
I note you lump together Segovia and Lousier with pop music.

Regards Dan

Dear Dan,

I did not get where I am today, without... to paraphrase CJ in Reg Perrin!

Did I say I enjoyed what you style "the lute suites" presumably of old Bach? What instrumant these were intended for is open to question in any case. According to the Lutenist Lisveland, only one is strickly playable on the Lute at all, and the rest, it seems a reasonable speculation to make, were designed for the harpsichord-like, Lauten-werke, and they are thus easily playble.

The sides of 78 transfered no such "lute suites" played by Segovia, but the works that are arranged from Bach - please don't ask for a list, though I could find out in extremis - sit among both other transcriptions of works by others than Bach, and original works, and in my view show Segovia as one of the great musicians on any instrument.

As for Loussier, he was one of the great musicians also. Perhaps both their efforts in Bach arrangements are in dubious taste, but neither makes any claim to authenticity. Thus no one is hood-winked into thinking that "This is Bach!" The risk with Gould is that his wild tempo and articulation eccentricities might well be taken as real Bach. That is my arguement here.

Finally you say that I "lump together Segovia and Lousier with pop music." Where?


Y S, Fredrik

It's funny that this issue should come up! I listened to some Segovia Bach transcriptions after viewing this thread last night. I was struck by how un-Bachian they sounded, and was thinking of asking the same question as bad boy dan - though I would have phrased it less provocatively!

I'm not sure what claims Gould makes for the authenticity of his approach, but this eems to be the crux of the matter, if I've understood Frederik correctly. Personally, I'm happy to take his Goldbergs as a "Glenn Gould production, inspired by Bach" and enjoy them (very much) on that basis, whatever Gould or anyone else says about authenticity.

BTW, I *enjoyed* the Segovia, too!

Dear Droo!

I enjoyed the Segovia for his completely individual take, as I do Loussier's efforts! I like more music than only than Bach. With Gould I find it unlike Bach as well, but I don't care for its spikiness, it harshness of soul etc, IMO!

I enjoy one or two things from Metallica as well!

I dislike some things from Frank Sinatra, but not all. In other words it is entirely personal. What gets me is when people say that Gould was the Greatest Bach Keyboard player, which is simply not right on any level, though he may have been the most gifted keyboard player to work on Bach, but that is different thing!

ATB from Fredrik

Fair enough. It is permissible to like music other than Bach - provided, of course, one has the appropriate licence

I must read the other thread but I would like to contribute about Bach because I have an extensive Bach library of vinyl and CD.

The Loussier and Segovia transcriptions are mainly from Bachs' Suites. These are dance music and these transcriptions certainly make you want to dance which is exactly why Bach wrote them. I saw Segovia in the early 70's in Porstmouth Guldhall and the memory of the Gavotte from the violin Partita no 3 still haunts me in a very pleasant way!! He took 7 encores and filled the Guildhall with beatiful music without using any amplification.

I saw Loussier live as well about that time and that was magical - yes the Benson and Hedges theme - but again the musicianship was beyond reproach. I confess that I have never heared Gould so I can't comment and leave that theme to the rest of you.

Finally - IMO Bach Swings in most of the music he wrote - you can even feel it in the organ music. Those Lutherans must have had a spring their step as walked out of church at the end of a service accompanied by Bach!!

Best regards

Frank