Dear Friends,

I keep remembering missing things, like Mendelsohnn's A Midsummer's Night Dream Music and Vilin Concerto, and the Purcell I have which is lovely. Indian Queen, King Arthur and some lovely viol music, and a few other odds and ends.

Actually, it gave me a good deal of pleasure scratching my head trying to remember everything. They live in a hideous pile, me not having a good shelf for them, but I do know (more or less!) where every thing is.

Also it will certainly cause me to look into some of the darker corners again!

Thanks for all the nice replies! Fredrik

Dear Fredrik,

Have finally had a chance to sit down and look through this properly - like others who have posted, I much appreciate the hard work you've put into it all.

Just one question (for now, anyway ), and sorry if you've already covered it, but I couldn't see it anywhere. It this your 'complete' library or highlights? I suppose what I'm asking is do you just feel, say, that the other Mozart operas were not worth hanging onto, or the rest of Mendelssohn's symphonies, etc? Just curious.

regards, Tam

Dear Tam,

I would call the Mozart operas work in progress for me. I know the ones I have very well indeed, and I find really understanding opera immensely hard work. One literally has to learn the meaning of the words to comprehend the setting and drama! Unless it is in English, of course.

I have never parted with a Mozart opera recording, and so you will note perhaps that Don Giovanni is my favourite.

I know the music from the Seraglio fairly well but have never studied it.

But I more or less went through the ones I know about ten years ago straight off, and gave it a rest which I have not broken. I have been deeply absorbed with Bach's keyboard and Organ works for the last two years.

In that way some areas are far better developed than others, simply because I have not got there yet. One of theese years I shall start on the Bach Cantatas, which I have barely skimmed yet.

In the case of Mendelsohnn, I am very fond of the Itaian Symphony. It was the first symphony I ever played in on the bass, and it really is very difficult to play cleanly and well, and I worked on the part for months! That was only 18 months after taking up the instrument, and so I know it inside out. As for the Scottish, I have played it several times, and never heard it either on records or live. That is amazing, when I think about it, but true.

I have never even thought of buying it on record, but I love it for all that..

No the listing is not highlights, but I have undoubtedly left maybe 30 or 40 recordings out, as it was a feat of memory. One day I will put them all on a shelf in sensible order, but now, as ever before, they live in disorder in piles! I know where everything is, almost always anyhow, but I do forget to whom I have loaned them, and have lost some very lovely things that way.

It is also true that I have not put in fillers, except for very rare exceptions, as I think everyone would soon gather that for every disc of Brahm's First Symphony there is the bonus of yet another recording of the Haydn Variations! It is a good job I love the piece really!

Thanks for reading it through!

All the best from Fredrik

PS: I missed that live Beethoven 7 from Boult, which I think a lot of, so missing them does not imply a lack of care, just get forgetful in a random way.

Fredrik

A very interesting list, but fewer Mozart operas (as Tam has observed) and piano concertos than I had expected.

Carlos Kleiber conducted two New Year's Day concerts in Vienna (1989 and 1992). Both are available on CBS/Sony CDs or, better still, on DG DVDs.

If you like Brahms and Bruckner symphonies, I'd urge you to try to hear Celibidache's Stuttgart readings available from DG.

And no Mahler at all?

Graham

Fredrik---what shall we make of the fact that about 98% of your favorite performers are long dead, and the few living ones are may be circling the drain soon........hehehe

Dear Oldnslow,

I think this reflects the quality of musicianship nowadays, where technical perfection is critically acclaimed, even at the expense of soul, and depth, spirituality, and communication.

I very much enjoy concerts, and, even nowadays, there is some sense of abandon in the concert hall on occasion, but no artist would survive the critical onslaught if they approved recordings as technically adept as many of those I have.

The truth is I wish that music criticism as profession has never been invented. It has ruined much in music, and concerns itself far too often with petty detail. It has ruined the approach to recording that allowed greats like Schnabel and Fischer (just to name two pianists) to record as they felt fit. What these two left seems so much more musically engaging than the sterile perfection, so prevalemt on modern piano records for example.

Yes I am glad the gramophone lets us listen to the efforts of a most natural, and freer time musically!

All the best from Fredrik

quote:

but I cannot easy sit down and listen to an opera till I have learned every word. then it makes sense for me

Hi Fredrik,

You surprise me as you are sensitive to music more than anyone I know and yet not only have I seen and loved operas where I have had to read the sur-titles to know what was going on I have seen operas in say, Italy for example where there was no translation and I did not understand a word but I still loved every moment. Even at home listening to a recording without the aid of all the visuals and still not understanding a word I still love the music and arias. Maybe you mean the whole recorded opera with no visuals and of course no translation? Hmm, yes, thinking about it I guess I would not sit and listen to the whole thing without at least being able to read the notes. Ignore me Fredrik.

Regards,

Erik

Dear Erik,

It is not a question of enjoying the music. I still have no idea what on Earth the Magic Flute is all about, but I love the music, but in truth, once I understood Giovanni, the music made far more sense and became much more deeply affecting for me. Also Cosi, which I adore, and am horrified by what may be going on at Glyndebourne...

So whilst the music may give a serious hint of the action, I find an understood libretto gives a huge gain. So I am shy to learn too many or too fast, but try to learn one at a time, absolutely by heart. It is hard work. I wish I was Italian speaking, and then it would be easy!

But I don't want to ignore you, Erik! You make a fair point!!

All the best from Fredrik

PS: I tried and failed with Wagner, and the last of it has now gone. But it was a twenty year effort, so no one can accuse me of laziness with it at least...

Fredrik

I haven't heard any of Celibidache's late Munich tapings released on EMI, so I can't compare them with what he did in Stuttgart.

The Stuttgart performances don't sound slow to me and, from what I've read, the excessive slowness was very much a thing of Celi's last years. The timings for the four Brahms symphonies, according to the DG documentation, are 47'29, 41'01, 42'47 and 42'47 respectively, if that's of any help. They are truly wonderful (I'm listening to the Fourth as I type this and it's in the same league as Carlos K).

Graham

Fredrik---I agree completely with your thoughts about all these great artists/performers that you list that did not have the benefit of current recording technology. While I enjoy very much listening to historical recordings, it boggles the mind to think what these performances would sound like if modern technology(like our wonderful Naim equipment) had been available.

Dear Oldnslow,

The old techniques used were perhaps primitive in terms of the perfection of microphones and storage media, but the studio discipline, would always at least afford a good musical balance and sense of line, where every salient detail is audible, if the tonal aspect is not perfect!

That is good enough for me! Fred

Graham,

Do you know the Bernstein/VPO Brahms four (the rest of that cycle is pretty poor, but the 4th is rather fine)?


Fredrik,

If your on the look out for more Brahms, Mackerras/SCO makes interesting, and very enjoyable (though sadly not very cheap) listening.

Thanks for your reply about the nature of the list. It does give a fascinating incite into how you put your collection together - if I were to post mine it would be far less useful. I suppose this partly because I haven't been collecting so long (my first classical cds were bought not that much more than ten years ago), but also because I tend to be loath to get rid of things. That's not to say I have any discs in my collection that I actively dislike. How useful would it be to post the details of my 12 Beethoven symphony cycles? Then again, I think I'd miss most of them if I didn't have then. That said, I'm currently listening to my Perahia Mozart cycle to see if I should get rid of it.

I admire your approach to opera - I think there is something in it. The operas I love the best are the ones I know the best (and, almost always, the ones I have seen in the flesh). If you're looking to branch out your Mozart, the new Mackerras Clemenza might be worth a look, it really is rather fine (even allowing for my extreme bias towards the conductor).

As to Mahler - I slightly know what you mean. I find a really good performance or reading should be absolutely emotionally draining. I've had that kind of experience with Alsop and the Bournemouth playing number 7 and Runnicles with the BBC Scottish playing number 3. That said, I tend to find those two to be uplifting rather than depressing (then again, if we're talking about 6 or 9...)

regards, Tam

Dear Tam,

If the Mckerras Clemenza is as fine as his early Mozart symphonies recordings, then it will be a great pleasure to me!

All the best from Fredrik

Dear Graham,

Regarding the times you give for Celi's Brahms recordings, this puts them slower than any I have overal, except Klemperer in the Third I think, but that is expected considering the taking of the exposition repeat.

On the other hand I never think on can get an idea of how much forward drive a reading has from overal timings, so I shall look out for these.

Thanks from Fredrik

Following on from Fredrik, I thought I might post my library (or, at least, the classical section of it). However, there is a significant difference here. While Fredrik was posting pretty well his complete library, I am only posting what I would term highlights or, rather, to put it more accurate, discs I would never part with. That's not to say that the discs I'm missing out are bad, nor that I want to get rid of them, nor that I rarely listen to them. It simply reflects the differences in approach in how Fredrik and I have put our libraries together. It also means that I am not necessarily sure that all the works I'll list will be available separately since I may own them in box sets.

Adams
-On the Transmigration of Souls; NYPO/Maazel
-Death of Klinghoffer; Nagan/Opera de Lyon


Ades
-Piano Quintet; Ades/Arditti Quartet


Bach
-Brandenburg Concertos; Pinnock/English Concert
-Cello Suites; 2 cycles, Schiff and Rostropovich
-The Well Tempered Clavier; Barenboim
-The Organ Works; Hurford
-Art of Fugue; Walcha (organ version)
-B Minor Mass; Gardiner/Monteverdi Choir/English Baroque Soloists


Barlow
-The Rainbow Bear; Lumley/Barlow/Northern Philharmonia


Bartok
-Piano concertos; Anda/Fricsay/Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra
-String Quartets; Takacs Quartet
-Bluebeard's Castle; Haitink/BPO/Tomlinson/von Otter


Beethoven
-Piano Concertos; Solomon/Philharmonia with either Menges or Cluytens; both Kempff cycles, in mono with Van Kempen, in Stereo with Leitner, both with BPO; Aimard/Hanoncourt/COE

-The Creatures of Prometheus; Mackerras/SCO

-The Complete Symphonies; Mackerras/RLPO; Bernstein/VPO
-Symphony 4; Szell/Cleveland; Gardiner/ORR
-Symphony 5; Barenboim/West-Eastern Divan Orchestra; Solti/CSO
-Symphonies 5&7; Kleiber/VPO
-Symphony 6; E Kleiber/Concertgebouw
-Symphony 7; Szell/Cleveland
-Symphony 9; Furtwangler/Bayreuth; Bernstein/BRSO and others (concert to celebrate the fall of the Berlin wall in which ode to joy becomes ode to freedom)

-Cello sonatas; Barenboim/Du Pre
-Piano Trios; Beaux Arts Trio
-String Quartets; The Lindsays
-Late String Quartets; Takacs Quartet
-Violin Sonatas; Oistrakh/Oborin

-Piano Sonatas; Kempff 50s mono cycle; Solomon's incomplete cycle

-Fidelio; Mackerras/SCO


Berlioz
-Symphony Fantastique; Davis/LSO
-Harold en Italie; Davis/LSO


Bernstein
-Mass; Bernstein/Titus et al
-Candide; LSO/Bernstein
-West Side Story; LSO/Berstein


Brahms
-Piano concertos; Fleisher/Szell/Cleveland Orchestra

-Complete symphonies (inc Haydn Variations and Academic Overture); Mackerras/SCO
-Symphony 2 and Double Concerto; Haitink/LSO
-Symphony 4; Bernstein/VPO

-German Requiem; Previn LSO


Britten
-String Quartets and Divertimenti; Belcea Quartet

-A Charm of Lullabies; Kozena/Martineau

-War Requiem; Giulini/Philharmonia; Britten/LSO

-Paul Bunyan; Brunelle/Plymouth Music series orchestra and chorus
-Albert Herring; Britten/ECO
-Billy Budd; Britten/LSO
-Midsummer Night's Dream; Britten/LSO
-Peter Grimes; Britten/Royal Opera


Bruckner
-Symphony 0; Solti/CSO
-Symphonies 1-3, 5, 6; Jochum/Staatskapelle Dresden
-Symphony 4, 7, 9; Walter/Columbia Symphony Orchestra
-Symphony 8; Furtwangler/VPO


Chopin
-Etudes
-Nocturnes
-Sonatas; All Ashkenazy


Dvorak
-Symphonies 7-9; Mackerras/LPO
-Tone Poems; Rattle/BPO


Elgar
-Enigma Variations; Mackerras/RPO
-Sea Pictures; Baker/Barbirolli/LSO


Handel
-Firework and Water Music; Orpheus Chamber Orchestra
-Coronation Anthems; Preston/English Concert
-The Messiah (arr. Mozart); Mackerras/ORF


Haydn
-Symphonies 82&83, 93-104; Bernstein/NYPO
-Symphonies 88, 92, 94; Bernstein/VPO
-The Creation; Bernstein/BRSO


Janacek
-Glagolitic Mass; Mackerras/Czech Philharmonic
-The Cunning Little Vixen
-From the House of the Dead
-Jenufa
-Kata Kabanova
-Makropulos Case; All Mackerras/VPO
-Osud; Mackerras/WNO


Mahler
-Symphony 1; Bernstein/Concertgebouw; Mackerras/RLPO

-Symphony 2; Bernstein/LSO (DVD account); Rattle/CBSO; Walter/NYPO

-Symphony 3; Bernstein/NYPO (DG); Haitink/Concertgebouw

-Symphony 4; Szell/Cleveland

-Symphony 5; Bernstein/VPO (DVD account and the later CD version); Mackerras/RLPO; Rattle/BPO

-Symphony 6; Jansons/LSO; Mackerras/BBC Philharmonic; Abbado/CSO

-Symphony 7; Abbado/BPO; Haitink/Concertgebouw; Bernstein NYPO (Sony); Solti/CSO

-Symphony 8; Rattle/CBSO; Sinopoli/Philharmonia; Solti/CSO

-Symphony 9; Bernstein/VPO and BPO; Haitink/Concertgebouw; Abbado/BPO

-Das Lied von der Erde; Ferrier/Walter/VPO; Baker/Haitink/Concertgebouw

-Kindertotenlieder; Ferrier/Walter/VPO


Messiaen
-Turangalila Symphony; Rattle/CBSO
-Eclairs sur l'au-dela; Rattle/BPO

-Quartet for the End of Time; Gawriloff/Deinzer/Palm/Kontarsky

-Organ Works; Bate


Mozart
-Piano Concertos 1-3; Barenboim/ECO
-Piano Concerto 4; Perahia/ECO
-Piano Concertos 5, 6, 8, 9, 11-27; Uchida/Tate/ECO
-Piano Concerto 7, for 3 pianos; Barenboim/Solti/Sciff/ECO
-Piano Concertos 9&15; Kempff/Munchinger/Stuttgarter Kammerorchester
-Piano Concertos 9&25, 12&17, 20&24, 22&27; Brendel/Mackerras/SCO
-Piano Concerto 10, for 2 pianos; Baremboim/Solti/ECO
-Piano Concertos 14&15; Barenboim/BPO
-Piano Concerto 23; Horowitz/Giulini/La Scala
-Piano Concertos 23&27; Curzon/Szell/VPO

-Horn Concertos;
-Clarinet Concerto;

-Eine Kleine Nachtmusic; All Orpheus Chamber Orchestar
-Sinfonia Concertante K297b; Barenboim/West-Eastern Divan Orchestra

-Complete Symphonies; Mackerras/PCO
-Symphony 40; Szell/Cleveland
-Symphonies 40&41; Bernstein/VPO

-Piano Sonatas; Uchida
-Requiem (ed. Levin); Mackerras/SCO

-Nozze di Figaro; Giulini/Philharmonia; Gui/Glyndebourne
-Don Giovanni; Giulini/Philharmonia
-The Magic Flute (in English); Mackerras/LPO
-Clemenza di Tito; Mackerras/SCO



Norgard
-Symphony 6;
-Terrains Vagues; Dausgaard/DNSO


Orff
-Carmina Burana; Rattle/BPO


Purcell
-Music for Queen Mary's Funeral; Gardiner/Montiverdi Choir and Orchestra


Schubert
-Symphony 5; Mackerras/OAE; Solti/VPO
-Symphony 8; Furtwangler/BPO
-Symphony 8 (completed by Brian Newbould); Mackerras/OAE
-Symphony 9; E Kleiber/CRSO; Mackerras/OAE; Rattle/BPO

-Piano Trios; Beaux Arts Trio
-String Quartets 8, 12-15 & D956; The Lindsays
-Piano Sonatas; Kempff
-D960 sonata; Horowitz; Curzon


Shostakovich
-Complete symphonies; Haitink/LPO or Concertgebouw
-Symphony 11; Rostropovich/LSO
-Satires; Kozena/Martineau

Sibelius
-Complete Symphonies; Bernstein/NYPO
-Kullervo
-Symphonies 3&7, 5&6; Davis/LSO (LSO Live accounts)


Smetana
-Ma Vlast; Davis/LSO
-The Bartered Bride (in English); Mackerras/Philharmonia


Strauss
-Ein Heldenleben; Jansons/Concertgebouw


Sullivan
-Pinapple Poll (arr. Mackerras); Mackerras/Sadler's Wells Orchestra


Tchaikovsky
-Complete Symphonies; Bernstein/NYPO


Tippet
-Concerto for Double String Orchestra; Tippet/SCO
-Piano Sonatas 1-3; Crossley
-Fanfare for Brass; Philip Jones Brass Ensemble
-Sonata for four horns; Barry Tuckwell Horn Quartet
-String Quartets 1-3; The Lindsays


Verdi
-Requiem; Abbado/BPO
-Don Carlos; Giulini/Royal Opera


Vaughan Williams
-Complete Symphonies; Haitink/LPO
-Sinfonia Antartica;
-Serenade to Music; Boult/LPO


Vorisek
-Symphony in D, op.24; Mackerras/ECO


Wagner
-The Flying Dutchman; Solti/CSO
-Tannhauser; Flagstad/Leinsdorf/Metropolitan Opera
-Lohengrin; Solti/VPO
-Tristan und Isolde; Furtwangler/Flagstad/Philharmonia
-Mastersingers; Solti/CSO
-Parsifal; Knappertsbusch/Bayreuth (51)

-Der Ring des Nibelungen (complete); Furtwangler/La Scala; Krauss/Bayreuth; Solti/VPO
-Das Rheingold; Haitink/BRSO
-Siegfried; Keilberth/Bayreuth
-Gotterdammerung; Bohm/Bayreuth; Knappertsbusch/Bayreuth (56); Mackerras/LPO (highlights)
-Deryck Cooke's Introduction to Der Ring des Nibelungen

-Wagner Orchestra 'Chunks'; Szell/Cleveland; Tennsted/LPO; Furtwangler/BPO


Having written all that, and given the time it took, I have an even greater respect for Fredrik than I did before!

There are one or two items I haven't listed, mainly these come from my two box sets of Horowitz recordings (but the number of works are so numerous that I do not intend to list them now - suffice it to say I have and love both his Sony 'Original Jacket' and DG Complete Recordings box sets); the same can be said of my two Kempff 50s mono DG box sets (one concerning concertos the other concerning solo efforts). I may add these in more detail later.

regards, Tam

Tam,

I for one would be fascinated to see your non-classical list as well. We all have fairly extensive collections, but the acid test is what you would keep, and what you keep listening to.

Thanks to both you and Fredrik for the filtering process that you have undertaken, and the effort involved.

Regards

Nic

Dear Tam,

That is lovely. Though the emphais is on a slightly later repertoire, it has many parallels in the classical (pre-romantic) era, so I would not feel deprived to live with all those recordings in place of my own.

I'll study it and post a good reply over the next days!

I wonder if we could do temporary record library swops, like a sort uncontroversial wife-swop thing? It's a thought!

Cheers from Fredrik

Fredrik,

You're right about the emphasis being a little different, however, due to my relative youth (and the fact that I've only been collecting classical cds for twelve or thirteen years) there are certain underdeveloped areas - still, with any luck, plenty of time to fix that!

A swap would be quite fascinating - though logistically quite tricky!


Nic,

I may post the rest of my library at a later date. Perhaps a project for next weekend.... (Again it would be pruned - so not all 100+ Miles Davis would, perhaps just 99 ).


regards, Tam

Just wanted to add a note. First up, I missed off two:

Mahler
-Symphony 10 (unfinished); Sinopoli/Philharmonia
(I do not include any of the recordings of any of the finished versions I have because they don't quite feel like Mahler to me - this is partly because, for me, a large part of Mahler's genius is in his orchestration.)


Schubert
-Trout Quintet; Ades&Belcea QT
-String Trios; Grumaiux

Secondly, I wanted to add a note as to just how pruned the list is. Not hugely for the most part, except for Beethoven and Mahler symphonies. I have 12 complete Beethoven cycles and I do wonder if I've been a little harsh - what is there is the absolute highlights (I would be reluctant to lose the rest of the Szell/Cleveland cycle, the Bernstein/VPO cycle, some of the rest of the Furtwangler cycle. I'm also very fond of both Jochum and Toscanini, but I think it would be easier to part with both). As far as the Mahler goes, I actually have 7 complete cycles and a whole bunch of other recordings. However, very much of the time they fall in to the category of 'interesting' (e.g. the bits of the Bernstein cycles that I have, but have not listed - I love them becuase I am a fan of both composer and conductor, but they are not close to being the first port of call when I want to hear the work). I have virtually all Abbado's Mahler, and while most of it is very fine, what is listed above it, to this ears, finer still, so I have ommited it. I am planning (and have written part of) a long thread to go through all my Mahler, possibly I will do the same for my Beethoven too.

regards, Tam